186: Dallas Burrow

On Episode 186, I'm joined by Texas songwriter Dallas Burrow, who at the end of the week (July 23), will be releasing his excellent sophomore album, Dallas Burrow. During this conversation, we talk about the songs and themes that make up the self-titled, working with Bruce Robison (who produced the effort), the influence and impact of his artist father, Texas songwriters, and how relationships and family are wells in which he continously returns to time and again.

This episode's presenting partner is Desert Door Texas Sotol and The Blue Light Live.

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Transcript

Thomas Mooney  0:01  

Hey, yo, welcome back to Newsline on music journalist Thomas Mooney. This is Episode 186, where I'm joined by Texas singer songwriter, Dallas Burrow. Dallas has a new record coming out at the end of the week, Friday, July 23. We caught up a little while back to talk about this self titled and Bruce Robison produced album. We talked about a host of things here from song writings and patients, recording with Bruce, the current Texas songwriter world, Dallas, his father, who was also an artist and the impact he had on Dallas, and how family and relationships have impacted his own brand of storytelling. And of course, there's a lot more in there. I'm gonna actually keep this intro super short because I'm out on vacation out on the lake, actually southeast of Dallas of all places. And yeah, anyway, trust me when I say you will want to grab this new record by Dallas burrow out this Friday. It's a great one. Today's presenting partner is our pals over at Desert door Texas Soto. If you've been listening to new slang for really any amount of time, you'll know that desert door is one of my all time favorite premium, high quality spirits. If you haven't or aren't sure what exactly a soul is. I'm going to let you in on a little secret that's going to up the game on your liquor cabinet. For starters, the best reference point that I can point you to is to think about a tequila or a scowl. Do you feel that Western desert that Texas ruggedness? Okay, Soto is like that, but a little bit more refined, smooth and fragrant. It intrigues the palate and offers these hints of vanilla and citrus, there's an earthiness that often sends me right back to my transpac is in foreign West Texas routes. There's plenty to love about desert door. For me, it all starts right there. a close second is just how versatile desert door really is. You can go full highbrow and experiment with concocting a variety of cocktails that call for muddling fresh fruit sprigs of time sticks of cinnamon, it's perfect for that world. If you're a little bit more down home, if you've just rolled up the sleeves up your denim Wrangler button up, it's perfect for that as well. If you're just desiring something that's short and sweet, it hits the mark every time does adore is genuine and authentically West Texan it's inherently West Texan. They harvest Soto plants out in the wild and are knowledgeable conservationists at heart. That's obviously something incredibly important to me. They shine a light on what makes West Texas special and unique and worth preserving and keeping it safe from exploitation. Right now, you can find desert door all over Texas, Colorado, Tennessee, and there's budding numbers in places like New Mexico, Arizona, California and Georgia. Best thing you can do is to check out desert door.com to find where desert door is locally. Again, that's desert door.com. Be sure to subscribe to new slang if you haven't just yet. We're available on Spotify, Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, and virtually anywhere you listen to podcasts. So give us a five star review. If you're over on Apple podcasts, they do go a long way. Be sure to visit the merch store that would be at New slang podcast dot big cartel.com over there. You can get t shirts, coffee mugs, koozies. All kinds of stuff. Go visit us over there. And yeah, let's get on into it. Here is Dallas burrow. I think like to go back to that first single that you released the board down to Texas. Yeah, that is such a you know, a greasy kind of blues number right there that just kind of you feel that? I don't know like that Louisiana heat in it. You feel that East Texas kind of swamp. Yeah, definitely. Definitely got a swamp thing going on. Yeah, I think like, That's such a great introduction for the record. What a word that song first kind of stem from what's the story there?

Dallas Burrow  4:18  

Well, you know, musically speaking, the inspiration kind of came out of this sort of, like, jam band that over the past year, I kind of was in and out of during the pandemic, you know, a bunch of musicians around here. I mean, everywhere but but the few around here that I was, you know, buddies with, we're all kind of, you know, the ones that had been on the road, we're off the road, and you know, there have been different living living arrangements made for others and stuff like that. So, but uh, it uh, the band was called out saddle. And that's been this kind of side project of just buddy of mine named Colin Fox and, and he plays his regular gigs and Charlie pocket spans both keys and trumpet, you know, accordion and for Charlie. And so it was called as ban. But this configuration in particular was, you know, was mean Colin and his other friend of mine and Chad Pope who had just moved down from Memphis. And Chad is, you know, he's kind of a, he's a character, man. And he's played with Dale Watson some but really, you know, Chad's kind of a hard you to pin down. I mean, he's kind of a psychedelic blues guy. And so, so like, as far as the storyline at the song itself, you know, you know, I was kind of, like writing to his story a bit. I mean, you know, having just come from Memphis and stuff and, but also to like that, that group, l saddle we had done a show opening for Dale Watson. And so, you know, Dale was back and forth from Memphis, he just moved back to Texas, I guess. And, and he, his wife, Selene, you know, we're, we're opening for them out some funky little general store, up in a little town called bend, which is outside of Comanche, which is like, another nowhere town. But But so, you know, I was just thinking about thinking about Memphis. And I've, you know, over the years, had the pleasure of spending a fair amount of time in New Orleans, myself. And, I mean, you know, as far as not to get too heavy about the whole thing, but like, you know, I mean, I've, you know, been sort of, on, I think a sort of a spiritual journey throughout a lot of my life, which part of which I started with this kind of adventure that around the time I was 19, I had a buddy of mine taking out the kinky Freeman's ranch. And it was after Katrina, probably Oh, seven, and there was gun in the river goat living out of kinky sales. And the Reverend goat was a Cherokee shaman, but he and Kiki had been on tour with Bob Dylan on the Rolling Thunder review. And, like 75 and, and the goal just was just, you know, the ultimate character did I mean, he was like, street preacher in a, like, set a shot and, and, you know, you know, and, and so, he kind of roped me into moving him back to New Orleans. And when I did get back in I got him back down there. He was, he had been called back to go play with dr. john at the House of Blues and Voodoo fest and stuff. So I got to meet dr. john and wound up hanging around Mac.

As you know, as those kind of years passed, passed me by in just that little period of his like, you know, I found myself just running around with all these like medicine men and stuff like that down down in New Orleans. So the, the mention of like, down in Louisiana chasing that Voodoo thing. And then you know, the woman up in Memphis, I mean, some, you know, some of its speaking to my personal experiences, some of this kind of touching on, you know, just kind of like, a bit more fictional references to stuff that, you know, friends of mine had happened with him, but So, see, so musically speaking, you know, with the guys I was jamming with, we're just kind of, you know, doing some, some countries, some blue stuff, but some of my favorite stuff we were doing was just like, real swampy, bluesy, funky, you know, kind of low down groove types stuff. And so I wanted to write an original song that sort of captured that feel. And so I just, you know, started kind of telling that story, a little bit of some of the stories and took it over to Chad. And I just had this like, one, four or five like that, you know, kind of standard blues change that I started writing it in. And, you know, Chad helped me kind of push it out of the box a little bit and, and kind of reworked the, it's still blues, but it's, you know, it's kind of a bit more bastardized version of the blues. It's not you know, it's not straightforward. And it helped me take it with the words a little bit put in a bridge. And, and so yeah, that was Chad really helped me make it what it was. Now he's playing that flag guitar on there that you know, signatures slide sound. So, but yeah, I was trying to get to tell some of the stories in a kind of neat and tidy Little Box and just put some of that funk on it. That we were working out with those guys.

Thomas Mooney  10:08  

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, like it really much ties really ties back into, you know, some of those old mythical kind of where the blues was born kind of thing. I can't remember, I guess it's like that blind lemon Jefferson song about, I'm paraphrasing here, I'll mess up the line, but like the blues game bucking on a mule into Texas or whatever that line is. Like, there's, it feels like that kind of like, there's all those old stories of, of how guys was born. And, of course, like, we're talking about a lot of the Mississippi Delta stuff. And as far as getting from there into all these other places as far as it going to New Orleans and in being like, you know, transforming into something else there. And then, of course, you mentioned Memphis and, you know, we can mention Dallas and Chicago and all these places. I really do. Like that kind of there's a little bit of that call back and feel. Yeah, yeah, I'm so sure. That's crazy. Like they, you know, you had all these like, shaman, just meeting VA kinky, Freedmen's ranch.

Dallas Burrow  11:19  

Yeah, man, that was a wild period of my life. I mean, you know, you know, the kids I grew up with, were going to college and, you know, doing normal stuff, and I was out there being a gypsy with some serious characters. And that, you know, at a definitely was a, an interesting time. And really helped, you know, shape the course of my, you know, artistic life and, and spiritual life and, and, you know, informed direction I would, you know, wind up going in to trial and error, I think, but, but yeah, for sure. Yeah. You know, I hadn't I guess I hadn't thought that much about it. But you talking about, like, you know, the blues came bucking in, on a mule is. It's almost like, a story, the storyline of the song is almost like the personification of like, the spirit of blues, it's tying together, Texas, and New Orleans and Memphis and the whole Delta. And, you know, so yeah, I think it definitely captures that. You know, that's so not spirit of the blues for sure.

Thomas Mooney  12:28  

Yeah, I mean, like, as far as like, you know, a mood. Yeah. Like, within a couple of seconds. You just know what, what's going to happen there. And then of course, it, you know, you mentioned the slide once all that kind of starts getting in, I guess it's like, a little bit later in the song as far as the when it really kicks in. And you're on that ride. It's such a great damn song. You. You mentioned I've met him a couple times. He probably does not remember me, but like the first. I've seen him play obviously with Charlie a bunch. But I guess the first time I saw him play here in Lubbock was with sons of fathers. He was playing with those guys. And, you know, that's like the first time I guess, like you kind of are I first saw him as far as like, yeah, this guy plays literally everything.

Dallas Burrow  13:17  

He's a brilliant dude, man. He really is. Interesting, interesting cat. And it's funny because, you know, he's, he's in his family goes back in New Braunfels, where I'm from, and, you know, we, we figured out at some point, I mean, I got I want met him in the past couple years. I met him through Charlie, you know, and like, I've known Charlie since way back. That's a whole different story. He and I met up in Northern California years ago. But, but when I set out to make this record, and, and everything, Charlie was like, Yeah, man, you should definitely get called into play on that stuff. Like, you know, you know, just really, I think, I think what Colin does musically can, you know, take any, any band to sort of a different level? But yeah, he was. I played right. He played with Paul coffin. I mean, he played with Ian Moore for years on the road. It's got great stories about that. Play Raul malo play with Bruce Robinson has been at some point, you know, I mean, played all kinds of different people. But yeah. But we figured out that, you know, his, his grandfather was a judge here in New Braunfels and my grandfather was a doctor and you know, so it's like we we kind of like suspect that they were probably all playing poker together you know, years ago. Back Back in the day so we got got kind of like an old some family history. Just you know, we speculate about but a super good dude, man. Yeah. And he had a, you know, almost got his doctorate and And the trumpet. So I mean, you know, he's he's just got an incredible amount amount of insight as far as like, just music theory and, and his knowledge of, you know, the musical world. But so yeah, you know, like, there's price on the band kicks in on that tune, you know, phones on the planet Oregon A B three is lezlie and got got Josh blue on drums. Sterling Finley on the bass and another old friend of mine, Larry cheney on playing the second electric guitar and yeah, man, it's well kickstand. It's like, in the studio when I was having I was like, Oh, man. Yeah. felt it. It's cool.

Thomas Mooney  15:50  

Yeah. Yeah. The you mentioned Bruce, obviously. And Bruce, you know, produce this record. And Bruce always has his like, go to musicians that he calls upon as far as the next waltz or any of these objects. Obviously, you're you're picking from your, your cast your bag of people. Well, what was it? I guess? Like, as far as knowing, like, where you needed to go? What direction? Who do you need to call upon? Given the given song or given the, what you needed out of a song? What was it? Like, I guess, like going through that roster? maybe having some of those conversations with Bruce's as far as who would maybe work best here? And not necessarily. They're like, what was that process?

Dallas Burrow  16:44  

So yeah, I mean, that was just kind of happened organically. I mean, you know, on the last record I did up in, in Nashville, I had the, you know, the good pleasure of getting to, you know, going out and meeting like, who I just from my own kind of detective work where some of the best musicians up and up in that city. And, and so, and I achieved, you know, a cool sound that way, I thought, and I was happy to work with the guys I did. So coming back to Texas, it was, you know, it was one of those things where, well, the bar is pretty high now, you know, with the Nashville record with Dave row and Kenny bond, and Chris Scruggs, and so on, so like, it's gonna have to be good, whatever I do, now, it's gonna have to be, you know, pretty good to, for it not to have a drop in quality. And so talking to Bruce, you know, like you said, he has, he has a pretty regular roster of go to guys, but then the thing is, to Bruce has worked with, you know, over his career with most everybody around that's worth working with. So it was kind of a, you know, I think we're like, he, he recommended a certain lineup of guys. And then, and I just was, you know, sort of, like, yeah, I mean, you know, that would be great. Now, what about, you know, a couple of these guys. And really, I just was trying to go to bat for, use it as much of my own band as possible, just because, you know, there's, I think there's something to it like that, you know, part of that is, you know, inspired in part by like, the way Charlie, you know, cuts his records, he likes to use his, his own band. And, I mean, there's, there's different philosophies about that, where, you know, some, some people will tell you, like, get the best studio musicians you can, for the record, and then get the band that you're gonna use on the road just to learn the record. And that's one way to go. But, you know, and, and just, you know, hoping to develop a sound and, and, you know, create some sense of, of loyalty and like, you know, hoping for people to feel like they got skin in the game. I wanted to use as many of my own guises I could do so. And Bruce was totally open to that. And, and, you know, lo and behold, the way the way it went, anyway, was there's nobody that I had named and suggest that he hadn't already worked with anyway. All right, you know, it's like, there's nobody I could bring to the table that wasn't already under the, you know, sphere of influence of bruises, you know, world as, you know, as it stands, so, it all worked out pretty good. So it was kind of a combination, you know, like, like Josh blue who plays all the drums and percussion on the album that's, you know, versus regular drummer and plays on most stuff. The next waltz anyway. No. You know, I suggest Larry Cheney, who is played on all I records previously and produced a bunch of stuff for me back in the day and of course, you know, Bruce and Larry down session before so Bruce was familiar with him and I suggested using Colin course contemplating versus ban before and you know, that much stuff the next wall so that was a no brainer. And so just you know, down the line but so it was it was a combination. I mean, he was he was really gracious and open to whatever you know, I wanted to do. And he also had, you know, definitely definite strong opinions about about things but luckily, there's nothing I suggested that it was, you know, too far away from I think, you know, what, what he had pictured, so it worked out that way.

Thomas Mooney  20:46  

This episode of new slang is brought to you by the blue light live here in Lubbock, Texas. Blue Light has long been the heart and soul of the Lubbock singer songwriter scene, and has been a home away from home for some of Texas, Americana, country and rock and roll his finest over the years. Talk with 99.9% of the Songwriters who have come out of Lubbock and the panhandle at large over the past 20 years. And they'll point to just how integral and necessary the blue light is, with live music and touring slowly but surely coming back spots like the blue light, or getting back to their usual ways as well. That means music every night of the week. Do you want to see that schedule? Well, I've got a few options for you. One, go to their socials and give them a follow up that is at blue light live on Twitter, at the blue light live on Instagram. And of course, by just searching the blue light live on Facebook, they're consistently posting that week's lineup of shows, as well as those heavy hitters that ought to be on your calendar that are coming up on the horizon. To check out blue light lubbock.com as well. There, they have the full schedule, the cover charges, time, any of those specials that may be happening while they're go check out their merge page. They have a wide range of hats, koozies, hoodies, sweaters, beanies, jackets, and so much more. You can of course get all of your merchant age, when you go see your favorite band, take the stage at blue light, just ask the bartender and they will get you all set. Speaking of which, that's another great way of seeing who's playing there. Just go to the blue light. It's at 1806 Buddy Holly Avenue here in Lubbock, Texas. And of course, again, that is blue light, loving, calm. I'll throw a link into the show notes to maybe I'll see you there. Okay, let's get back to the show. Right. Yeah, the, I guess I've been privy to being down there one time for a couple of sessions. But even then, like I think it's maybe hard to to relay just the the vibes of that place. Yeah, it's, like, slick. And it's like, everything's in a, in a, in a moment of, I guess, working, you know what I mean, it's a working studio. So it's not, like where, you know, you walk into a room and everything's not clutter free? Or it's not, you know, clutter free. It's not like, where, yeah, you know, I mean, it's in the, it's in a state of, you know, where people were working. And it's worn in and all that kind of stuff. For sure. How easy is it to to, like, you know, ease in and feel like you're like, you know, live in there that that it's a comfort zone?

Dallas Burrow  23:51  

Well, I mean, it's, I guess, you know, it's like anything else? I mean, it's all what you make it, you know, you're you i was i was i was pretty, pretty quickly, fairly comfortable. And, I mean, it's funny, like, you know, I know what you mean, it's like it to describe it the way it the way that place like is on paper does isn't it doesn't exactly do it justice. You know what I mean? Like, like, the magic that's there is is more than, like, the physical reality of the place a lot more, you know, there's, there's a lot happening, just, you know, musically that transcends the, the nuts and bolts of it. I mean, but yeah, it's, it's not it's not like a slick frill like place with a lot of frills. Now, it's not that it's creature comforts, but yeah, it's a place you go to work. It's you know, it's it's got a it's got a rustic country. kinda low down thing about it that, that Doug, and I mean, as far as feeling comfortable out there, man, I mean, you know, the the main thing was at for me personally like, as you know, someone a relatively, you know, young songwriter dude from Texas, like, just to be in a room with Bruce, you know, once I got acclimated to like being around Bruce, then you know, that's all good. You know what I mean? Because Bruce, you know, versus like, you know, like a mythical creature, or he's like a, you know, a mythical character in the whole landscape of Texas music at this point. You know, so, yeah, I mean, it was, you know, I mean, then, you know, it was I was a little nervous at first, but once once, you know, I got over that, then then it was all good, man. You know, I love I love working out there. It was, it was a ball. It was, you know, it felt like I was at a special place every time I went out there. And yeah, Bruce makes you feel comfortable. Yeah. Yeah. Put on a pot of coffee. And, and, you know, and, and, you know, brag on it, when it needs when it's when he's proud of what we're doing. And, and if it's, you know, if he feels like something needs to be better, he'll, he'll be quick to tell you that too. You know, he doesn't pull any punches. But he was, I mean, fun to work with for sure.

Thomas Mooney  26:42  

Yeah, that's maybe like the, the analogy right there as far as the as far as what the next waltz? the bunker goes is, yeah, they have a coffee pot. And that coffee pots probably, you know, it's no frills coffee pot. It's not like you know, where you're having to push 18 buttons. There's only one kind of coffee you're getting to get. And it's all about the functionality of it. Right. Right. So and the thing with Bruce is, you know, you're not going to be a nicer guy, you're not going to be someone who's more knowledgeable. Yeah, but we all know that there's a little bit of that intimidation factor where you're like, this guy's written fucking massive songs.

Dallas Burrow  27:31  

And he's like, seven feet tall. Six, five anyway, but no, yeah. Yeah, exactly. You know, there's the Robison brothers. I mean, you know, there's, there's like, it's like, they're like their own. You know, like royal family. Almost, you know. It's a dynasty is a way you know, I guess you describe those guys. Yeah, and yeah, man. No.

Thomas Mooney  28:03  

No, I know what you're saying. Yeah, exactly. is like, you know, Charlie, and Bruce and their, their sister Robin. Obviously, Kelly. I don't know. People know, enough about Robin stuff. Like, I think her stuffs incredible too.

Dallas Burrow  28:23  

Dude, I saw I saw her up. So like, right. But also to she, you know, she's, um, you know, one of the owners out there Devil's backbone tavern, right. You know, I'm talking about

Thomas Mooney  28:38  

Yeah, no, I'm not. I'm not familiar on that.

Dallas Burrow  28:41  

Okay. So, so the devil's backbone Tavern is this place that and the past couple years, Robin Ludwig versus sister and there's another lady that is part owner, and I'm not sure who all's part is in place might just be those two by the name Abbey Road, who also owns Copeland dancehall and I think you'd better own luckenbach or something. But, so Robin and Abby, like, revitalized and and got the devil's backbone Tavern off the ground again. And next time you're down in the hill country, Thomas man you gotta come check that place out. It's the devil's backbone is this is this like, you know, it's a it's like a ridge in the hills outside of between New Braunfels and like Wimberley area, just kind of like on the edge of the hill country down here. And, and so, you know, just a great drive. You know, the throw the follows this ridge and the tavern is this, you know, super kind of rustic, old, old deer joint. But, uh, they've brought up you know, some some great shows. been put together in the past? You know, before the shutdown and since but I mean, like, they had Todd Snyder and jack Ingram do a song swap and, you know, look at this. They bring a lot of cool cats down to Austin and different stuff. But, uh, so I went to see Willis Allen Ramsey out there about, I don't know, two years ago or something. And you hit the Willis right? No. Yeah, of course. So, Willis, for me is like, that record you put out in 71 is is like, you know, the holy grail of, you know, songwriter records. I mean, you know, up there to me, he's, you know, up there with, with Townes, Van Zandt and with Bob Dylan, and you know, Leonard Cohen and all my favorite songwriters, Willis is right up there with those guys. And that that album in particular is as good as anything I think anybody's done for my money. But But, uh, so sold out show out there Devil's backbone. About 200 people 300 people, I don't know how many of you know what the capacity is, but and what's wills by himself the guitar, but but Robin anyway, Robin opened up for him. And yeah, she was awesome, dude. You know, super interesting songs. Yes. Cool lady.

Thomas Mooney  31:23  

Yeah, sure. I would say first suggestions for listeners. Her record, this tall to ride is a great record. Check out Oh, as far as like, Willis Island. Ramsey goes, I mean, like, yeah, there's so many. It should be kind of one of those things where if you're a songwriter in Texas, it should be like required listening. You shouldn't have to on that record, and like maybe write a essay on it or something. After listening. Yeah. Right. Yeah, that look that record. Just incredible. Yeah, it's just I don't know what else to say about it. Like, there's just, I don't even know like I the other day on Twitter, having a conversation with some friends as far as like, what's your favorite song on that record? And I kept on like, replying back, like, and erasing my reply, because I would No, no, maybe it's not that song. Maybe No, no, no, it's definitely satin sheets. No, no, no, no. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard to like to say like, what the best songs on that record. And of course, like, you know, in a lot of ways, like that record. It's very, very easy to I guess mythologize romanticize a record, especially the story with that, as far as like it being his only record. It's very, very easy to fall in line with that. And kind of be disappointed by the actual product. This is a robot stands up, though. Like it? Oh, yes. The story?

Dallas Burrow  32:59  

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm excited. It's now timeless. And yeah, it's hard. It's hard to pick a favorite. Like, I mean, it's fine, too. Because I think it's, it's always gonna be one of those that for songwriters from this part of the world. Yeah, definitely a prerequisite. You know, thing you got to know and study, at least at some point a little bit. Like, I think I remember reading an article about Lyle Lovett, that when he first started out, you know, he was going around to coffee houses or whatever, and, and, you know, playing spider john, and that, you know, that was kind of like, you know, a formative you know, kind of just part of, you know, his, the trajectory of his career was, so yeah, I played I, you know, like, just and, and I'm just playing, you know, I'm playing a three hour set somewhere. Like I do, sometimes. I'll play spider john. I'll play northeast Texas women. I'll you know, I'll bust out satin sheets sometimes. Yeah, you know, yeah, wishbone. I think that's Leon Russell. playing piano on wishbone. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Right.

Thomas Mooney  34:32  

Yeah. That's, uh, that era of Texas troubadour? The the Wilson Allen Ramsey guy Clark towns. Rowdy crowd like that. Era of songwriter. I think we all kind of like go back to and think like that being like that golden era, the the Golden Age. Really Nelson on top, you know, that kind of deal right?

Dallas Burrow  34:59  

Sure. Yeah, okay, I just, you know, that Willie's right in there, but he also kind of transcends the whole thing, I guess. I mean, you know, he's like the figurehead figurehead of you know, I mean, Texas music in general probably and but

Thomas Mooney  35:20  

yeah, absolutely, he does transcend and all that stuff but

Dallas Burrow  35:24  

but he's one but you're right he's in a lot of ways. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, I guess what I was gonna say though is like you know, we all kind of always look back at that era

Thomas Mooney  35:40  

right now like maybe obviously it's very very hard to you know, compare these contemporary guys what's happening in Texas right now to that area. But like I feel like we're in a real nice sweet spot as far as guys are and women who are doing songs down here in Texas that aren't necessarily trying to be on like Texas Country radio but are still you know, very very successful in their own way carving out their own spots. We've already mentioned Charlie Crockett but like, you know, guys like and he's not necessarily from Texas, but lives here in Texas now Jesse Daniel, we're like you got like the show Ray Walker's in the Vincent new Emerson's. I feel like we're all in like this really nice. spot, sweet spot. As far as maybe in a couple of years, we will kind of look back and realize, Oh, these guys are like, maybe maybe they aren't the ability to Shavers and the the Joe Heelys and, and whatnot, but maybe they maybe they live up to some, some some kind of level that we're maybe not given full appreciation to right now. What I guess like What's your thoughts as far as you know, kind of be in the middle being in the middle being like, you know, where we're, you're not necessarily thinking about all the accolades that will come, but have you have you stepped back and thought about, like, you know, some of your contemporaries and peers all kind of also doing some really, really cool stuff right now.

Dallas Burrow  37:18  

Oh, yeah, man. Yeah, it's exciting. It's exciting. It's an exciting time to see the quality of the output of all those guys, you mentioned. To some, some of those guys are, you know, good friends of mine. And, and I've never met Josh. But, you know, I sat around recently and clicked a little bit traded songs with Vincent, on the back porch after a gig he played down here someplace. And, and he and I had never really been in a room together. Or, or we we've met, but we hadn't really ever sat and traded songs and stuff. And, you know, that was that was a cool, cool moment. You know, like, I got a lot of respect for what he does. And, and Yeah, I did. Jesse's you know, dude, we did a bill in Austin the other day. In the summer Dean and I, and, and Jesse's band is, they were just, you know, they were a powerhouse that night. But, but to, you know, his songwriting and everything. I've got a lot of respect for that. For his stuff. It's, uh, I think, I think that the Texas songwriter thing has rubbed off on him some, which is his record is dropped yet the whole thing, but it's about see if it hasn't. And so once you get the dig, dig into that a little bit, you'll see what I mean, there's, you know, I think, just from my, you know, my conversations with him, like, I don't think he wants to be boxed in to the Bakersfield thing. Like, solely forever, either. He wants to be able to, you know, kind of explore the, you know, different different sides of country music, and stuff like that. And Charlie, of course, is, you know, he's Charlie's poise, I think, almost, you know, do what Willie has done in a way to kind of like, bring the sound of the region to, to the world stage for a different generation. And so, you know, I've got infinite respect for his, his work ethic and just, you know, just like, this is his style. The way he approaches just you know, the music and and the whole thing Now speaking of Joshua rock Walker though, I said and just watched a little the film on him last night, and I got can sing and play and write with the best of them, dude. So, yeah, I think, you know, it's one of those deals man where I was having a conversation recently with a friend of mine and Daniel Johnson, who is he played some he played on the record this this one I'm putting out and he played a dobro and pedal steel and he played with Hank free for a long time different stuff and and he was he was trying to give me a little bit of a just talking to me about stuff, you know, give me some perspective on things and it's like one of those things where when you set out to to honor the craft of what guys like Billy Joe shaver and Townes Van Zandt, and guys like that have done it's like, you know, before you realize it, like you're doing, you're doing it, and he may not realize it is I think that's kind of what you're what you're getting at is like, it's hard, it's hard to step back and see where you fit into the whole into the grand scheme of things. And so, you know, you know, I think, you know, all those young guys, whatever, are trying our best to pay homage to those, those cats that have come before us. But But there is a void that needs to be filled. So, you know, you know, I think somebody's got to do it. And so I think we're all just trying to do our part to, to, to honor that craft, that that tradition of the Texas songwriter, guys, and you know, I guess time will tell how good a job we've done at it. Right.

Thomas Mooney  42:06  

I want to break one more time to talk about our pals over at Desert door and offer up a quick Thomas Mooney, cocktail minute, as I've said probably 100 times by now, by no means am I a seasoned mixologist or bartender, but these have been some of my desert door go twos. For starters, let's just go with the tried and true range water, pop the top off the topo Chico, take a good swig. Now pour in some desert door and top it off by throwing in a few lime wedges never fails. This one. It's so simple. It probably doesn't even count. But again, pretty foolproof. do the exact same thing. But get you a Mexican Coca Cola. I guess you can go with a regular one. But you're really cutting yourself short if you don't opt for the Mexican import variety. Alright, here's the change up you've been waiting for desert door sangria. This one is prime for when you have company coming over and you aren't wanting to just be over there making six different drinks at a time. What you'll need is some desert door. Obviously, a bottle of red wine, honey, boiling water, apple cider, apple cider vinegar, some cinnamon sticks, a couple of apples and some time sprigs. I know that may sound intimidating, but trust me it's worth the prep. And honestly, it's pretty easy. For starters, get you a Punchbowl, add that honey, those cinnamon sticks and the boiling water together. Now you're going to want to stir that all up and let it cool down for about an hour. So remember, patience is a virtue. Once that's done, add some desert door and stir vigorously. Now add the one the cider and the vinegar and continue stirring until it's equally mixed. Now slice those apples up and toss them in. Put in those time sprigs as well. Now you can pour that over some ice and you have a modified sangria chef's kiss. Anyway, those have been some of my favorite go twos as of late. And remember, desert door is as versatile as vodka and more refined, smooth, complex and intriguing than tequila. It's rich and balanced. And whether you decide to keep it simple or want to experiment. Desert door is that perfect Texas spirit. There's plenty more recipes over at Desert door.com as well. Check out the show notes for a link. All right. Let's get back to the episode. Yeah, the Charlie's work ethic as you mentioned there. I mean he's making up for lost time when it comes to putting out records. And you know what's, what's amazing is is I think we've kind of gotten in and I don't know maybe maybe we haven't gotten into this, but we've gotten into maybe a little bit of a thing where you kind of eke out as much out of a record, you bring out as much life out of a record when you release one because, yeah, clearly you can make a record at any point now without having a label and all that kind of stuff. But obviously, you know, like, cutting a record is expensive. And it's not necessarily like back in, you know, the 60s or 70s, where these guys are putting out two records a year, or like two records every 18 months kind of deal. And they're, they're kind of in that spot where like, you know, not as a privilege, but they have like, the luxury of being able to, if you look at like Willie's catalog, you know, there's Nelson sings Kristofferson. So he's got like just Christoffersen songs on record, and, you know, having the ability to, to do a bunch of stuff outside of maybe like, as far as the catalog goes, what my moat my entire point is that Charlie's kind of like, even at that still flipped it, where he's, he's putting out so many records and still having maintaining a vision throughout without it feeling like oh, well, you know, half the songs that need to be cut. You know, they, we never really feel that, where it's like, you shouldn't have just put all this effort in one record or anything like that. You never really fill that. And yeah, like he's doing a whole lot of really, really cool stuff, I think like him in maybe not at the same rate of record releases, but are still releasing a bunch of records, Mike in the moon pies. And the new one coming pretty soon, too. So yeah, yeah, I don't know. It's, it's interesting to see how, you know, I think we've put a whole lot of pressure on the record, as far as like, you know, again, wringing every little ounce of of life out of it over a, you know, a couple of years, and all that kind of stuff here, if you're releasing singles, and like, you know, I'm gonna release five singles out of this, and, you know, whatever, all that kind of stuff goes. Maybe you don't have to do that. Maybe I don't know, I'm just rambling on here.

Dallas Burrow  47:21  

No, no, I hear you loud and clear. I mean, there's, you know, there again, it's a it's, it's one of those things that, you know, there's different philosophies on, I guess, you know, Charlie records and releases records at a feverish pace, and it, but it never, you know, like you said, Never, there's never a lack of quality. You know, it's always, I mean, and the quality actually just seems to be getting better as time goes on. And, you know, that was, that was something he impressed upon me a couple years ago was like, Man, you know, just, like, make good music, and put it out and keep playing. Like, just, that's what you do. You know, like, over and over, just keep doing it. So, I mean, I think I think he's really kind of set a standard, or, you know, he just says he has savvy, from, you know, from the time from playing on the streets on that. And, and, you know, he and I met mentioned earlier, but let's kind of talk a little bit more about it. He and I met a few years back, it was probably like, seven years ago now, or something like that up in Northern California. And it was, he just was he was just about to record a stolen Gen, which was like, you know, this is this is way early, and relative to his, his whole recording.

Career, I guess. And from that, from the very first time I heard him a song like he he's been the same Batman just, you know, like, he could always get Get, get people moving, and said, he had a spark and had a look and had a sound and it's evolved, but it's, he's stuck to his guns, really. And I think, you know, not to overstate it, but you know, all these other guys were talking about Josh Benson and me and, you know, there's, there's others. I think, you know, that Charlie has done a lot to kind of inspire the rest of us. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Eating know that, you know, there's a way to do it, and everybody's gonna kind of take their own approach at it and, you know, maintain their own But as far as like, you know, setting a setting a bar and, you know, yeah, but you know, he definitely want to get it get all the miles you can out of every record you put out and, you know, and, and hopefully, you know, you know, be able to amass enough material. You know, you know, since me I want to, you know, I like I like writing songs. So I've, you know, up to this point, to all original material, which that's something, you know, that Charlie's been like, Man, you know, cut one of those towns, songs, you'd like to do different stuff like that. So there's right, which is, which is, you know, like you're saying, that kind of approach that Willie and you know, even Ray Charles and Johnny Cash, I mean, all those guys saying, Waylon, all those guys sing other people's songs. And so that's something that I may consider in the future doing. But yeah, yeah, Mike, the monthlies man, I love what they're doing to, you know, they, and they get really worked up from, you know, I mean, I don't, I don't know them, personally, or I'm as close to their story. But I know that they kind of came up out of the honky tonks and Austin, and, you know, have built, built what they do up and, and they, you know, they just keep putting out good records. And that's what it's all about, man, you know? Yeah, just, you know, I read something at some point that something to the effect that like, you know, that the high, the high volume of creative output is, you know, you know, maybe like, more capitalists philosophy than it is a creative philosophy or something to that effect, whatever. I mean, if you can maintain quality, creativity, and keep doing it, and you know, and be able to build up what you're doing, to a point where it's also, you know, lucrative and successful, I mean, more power to you. No,

Thomas Mooney  52:19  

no, absolutely. Yeah. The, the thing that, as you mentioned, with Charlie, as far as, like, you know, cutting other people's songs, that is very much like the tie to Willie Nelson, the, you know, I've had some buddies who have had, you know, where they've cut someone else's song and caught a little flack or been hesitant, because they think they're going to catch flack from from an audience or something like that. And, you know, I've always gone back and told them, you know, Willie Nelson, is maybe the most I don't like the most identifiable singer songwriter in the state of Texas. There's a culture and like a, you know, a level of songwriting, craftsmanship with every song that Willie's ever written. And maybe his most known songs are all covers. So like, don't be proud necessarily, to, to think that, like, you know, you can't cut someone else's song. Because, I mean, if Willie Nelson can cut a person's, again, like, I go back to like, yeah, they've had some, like, you know, a little bit more bandwidth that they had to fill up because they had that luxury of, if you're on an on a record label, you know, and it's on the company's dime as far as like putting out records go, maybe, maybe there's a little bit to that. But still, I mean, I guess like, Who is it? Who Fred rose? Is Fred rose who wrote blue eyes crying in the rain? or? Yeah, you know, always on my mind. I don't know who wrote that. But like, that's a cover, you know, like, there's so

Dallas Burrow  53:59  

sure. Whiskey whiskey rivers, and I think Johnny bush saw, right, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, there's just, you know, classics. I mean, you know, Willie definitely didn't write blue skies. And that's one of my favorite cuts of his I mean, yeah, yeah. I mean, he's, you know, dude, you know, I really like his, his Frank Sinatra album he put out recently, you know, right. You know, he does. So, yeah, I think I think there's definitely something to that man. I mean, you know, I mean, he was, if I'm not mistaken, Willie was a, you know, a staff writer, or, you know, he was a Nashville songwriter, and so, so it's not like he doesn't have the chops, to write enough material for himself to record and perform. But even still, he chose to, and probably, you know, very wisely to cut other people's songs. Because people like that stuff, you know, people, people, I mean, it's, that's one of those things. Yeah. It's easy to be prideful as a songwriter to say, Okay, well, I'm only gonna come out, you know, I'm only I'm only gonna write the record, you know, I'm only gonna record it for for my own material. But that is very limiting. And, and I mean, yeah, I was in green Hall and, you know, first time I heard Charlie do Jamestown fairy live and do the everybody in the room was singing. And you know, because because some somewhere in the back of their mind. They remember they remember that from back when and so? Yeah, it's a it's a, you know, there again, there's people are gonna have all sorts of different philosophies on it. And I know, I know great songwriters who can make the argument that, you know, there's no reason to sing other people's songs, you get your own songs, but you know, it's not all about you doesn't, you know, like, yeah, regardless of how fascinating one person's story is, or the stories that they can make up, you know, it, you're, you're probably selling yourself short to some extent that you're not willing to the same stuff that people know and love. And so yeah, that's, that's a that's an age old kind of debate there. But yeah, I mean, if we can sing Johnny Bush, and if wailing can say Billy Joe, and you know,

Thomas Mooney  56:35  

it's all like time in place, right? I mean, like, Yes, yeah, it's the, you know, if you're looking for a record that you that you're very passionate about, and it's like, you know, you want it to be that singular vision. Absolutely, you need to, like be writing those songs. But, you know, if it's, it's one of those things where maybe the records not as sad as much of a conceptual record, or if, or whatever the case, it's okay to, like, you know, but put in one of those other songs.

Dallas Burrow  57:11  

Dude, if you're struck with a set of inspiration, and you and you've written an album worth of incredible original material, by all means, record it, perform it. But don't be too proud do at some point in your, you know, in your life to, to, you know, pay homage to, you know, all the great songwriters, and great songs that exist already. Yeah. Yeah,

Thomas Mooney  57:38  

transition a little bit, we've talked a little bit about, you know, working with Bruce, as far as, like, you know, cutting on tape, you have to slow down, because you can't, it's just part of the process. As far as like you can't be, you can't do all the parts in a day, or three days or something like that, you have to slow down as far as the recording process goes. And that, that helps you a lot of ways understand the song more, you have to think about it all, more all that kind of stuff. As far as slowing down goes, have you been able to, I guess, apply that to the songwriting as well. Because I know, like, easily, it's easy to kind of get frustrated and trying to like, I need to finish this, have you been able to apply that to songwriting? You know, in a way where it's like, you know, this doesn't have to be finished this afternoon. Because I think we can all get to that point of like, this tasks, this task needs to be done now.

Dallas Burrow  58:43  

Mm hmm. That's, that's a good question, then. You know, it's so yeah, I mean, has, has the recording process and for my songwriting process, probably, you know, sort of, yeah, I mean, just, you know, just for instance, like, yesterday, I, you know, I started kind of writing something in just just mentally, I was kind of coming up with some lines. And so right before we sat down here to have to talk, this afternoon, I started kind of jotting down some of these verses that I had on my mind. And so, I mean, I think I think it's, it's definitely important to to give yourself the time that it requires to complete a thought or, or a song or, you know, whatever it is you're working on. Now, oftentimes, it's been my experience that that I kind of get like, I'll get struck with these moments, occasionally. Whether it's you know, or, or otherwise, I've give myself the space to do it, like, you know, the space and time to properly sit down and start and finish something. And, you know, it's like, when I have the right pin, I get a clean piece of paper and a cup of coffee, and I'm at my desk, and I have 30 minutes, and it's like, the right time of mourning. And, you know, if I, if I do that, if I if I set myself up for that, oftentimes, I'll be able to sit down and, and complete the idea from start to finish. And so there's different factors that, you know, kind of contribute to your ability to finish something in one sitting. But that's not to say that if, if the idea or, you know, the song starts in a different way, where you're not in your paper, or you don't have the whole half hour to an hour, or however long it would take you to finish it that that you shouldn't still, you know, pay attention to that idea. And then, and then, you know, take the time to finish it later. So it's, yeah, I mean, every song is different. And, you know, like, yeah, it's one of the things, you know, like, I've gotten to where some of the songs that I've written lately, whereas ordinarily, or early in my writing, I would usually sit down with a guitar and write with the guitar and write, whereas at the same time, I've gotten to where, you know, I like to write the lyrics. And once I get the lyrics, then I can just, you know, then I can come up with some words. Sometimes I get struck with the line in particular, like in a conversation, or just the, there's like, some idea that, that, you know, comes to me that, like, I need to, I realized I need to write a whole song around this line. So, it's always different. But I think, regardless of any of it, I'm working on this album with Bruce out there in the studio, and, and the way that we recorded and the approach that we took to the songs will inevitably inform the way that I write and record in the future.

Thomas Mooney  1:02:32  

You know, right. You I chuckle a little bit because you're like, you know, having the right things having that cup of coffee. All that. Yeah, the thing that like I go, I know exactly that is you said the right pin. Some Yeah, I think like people maybe underestimate the power of having a pin that like is your favorite pin.

Dallas Burrow  1:02:54  

Oh, dude. I'm there with you, man. Yeah, I like these pilot. precise. The five extra fun rolling ball. You know, it's, it's like, it's almost like a little marker, but it's got a ball in it. And it's just the way it almost writes like a fountain pen or something. But it uh, yeah. And like, no, I like to write in a composition book. You know? Like the black. The black and white flecked, covered comp book. Like, can my chemistry class Yeah, right. Yeah. But yeah,

Thomas Mooney  1:03:35  

when I use these uni ball signo two Oh, sevens. There are ones that are like extra Klein that are even better. I don't have one on my desk right now. But yeah, those are like my go to because I just feel like they. They just, I don't know, they're just way better. For

Dallas Burrow  1:03:53  

Well, I just wrote that down. I just wrote that down with my pilot. Precisely five Uniball signals to seven.

Thomas Mooney  1:04:03  

Yeah, now this is this is gonna be really Insider. I don't know if we're gonna connect on this or not. Are you left handed or right handed? I'm right handed. Okay. Well, I'm left handed. And another point on this is that like these, these, like, for me, I've tried to I've told this is super boring. But you know, when you're writing right handed, you're like pulling the pin. So like the ink right? And like jam up on you when you're pushing it. And these are like red one pins that I don't ever have problems with. So I gotcha. And then I don't have like, I don't end up with any ink smears handy.

Dallas Burrow  1:04:42  

Yeah, I was gonna ask if that's a problem with the ink getting the ink on your palm? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Thomas Mooney  1:04:51  

But you mentioned. Yeah, you mentioned just being allowing yourself the the time, the space to To be in the moment, that I think that's like, you know, something super key to it all is is that is, you know, every song can come different. And in Yeah, you can write in these different spaces, but sometimes just having kind of the setup. Yeah, important to where we're, you're not having to worry about all the other stuff maybe like, you know, not to make it into science or anything like that, or math, but, you know, sometimes having the right conditions allows yourself to, like not even be thinking about anything other than the task at hand, which is the song.

Dallas Burrow  1:05:44  

Exactly. Yep. Yep. I mean, I agree, you know, it's, rather than waiting to be struck by inspiration, and then having to scramble to, like find, find the materials to record the idea. If you create a time and space where, you know, the the object of, you know, of that said, time to space is to create, whether or not you come up with anything, then you, you know, you've got, you've at least created the proper conditions to allow it to happen. And if you do that on a regular basis, and you have a kind of like, method, I think the more likely you are to come up with something that's worth worth keeping. You know, right. You know, it's like, I heard somebody, a songwriter, lecturing songwriters on songwriting, recently saying, like, the only way to write something is to be writing, you know, you know, if you're not, if you're not writing, you're not going to come up with anything. So I mean, yeah. Yeah, well, I

Thomas Mooney  1:06:56  

think it's the, you know, so early on in people's careers, because, you know, you've never done it before, it's very, very easy to just be like, inspired to write about everything, because it's all fresh and new. And you kind of fall in line with that thinking, where, you know, if I need to be inspired by something, and, you know, it needs to be something big and bold and powerful, emotional, whatever the case, and, you know, that's going to hit me and that's when I write a song and because that's happened so often, when you're starting out, but there's something to that whole thing where, you know, that's not always going to work, that's always going to happen and, and having that little bit of structure. Because I know, like, for me, like I always have problems starting stuff. And sure, it's just because you're like, you procrastinate, procrastinate about doing it. And then five minutes into it, you like, forgot how you even started. So it doesn't even like once you start getting that ball rolling, it's gonna get lost in what you're working on. And that's where a lot of magic and a lot of stories come from is like, once you get past the the initial stages of a board.

Dallas Burrow  1:08:16  

Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. If you can get get used to, like, kicking yourself away from the short of reality into the creative process, then, yeah, yeah. You You're more likely to do it more often. And, you know, inevitably, inevitably, you'll be able to create more often and produce more and better quality material, hopefully. Whether that's with songwriting or with, you know, writing of any kind or any kind of creative, you know, sort of a task. Yeah, for sure. Yeah,

Thomas Mooney  1:09:02  

I think that's a good spot to to end it all right there. It's been great talking to you this afternoon. 

Dallas Burrow  1:09:10  

Man, it's my pleasure, Thomas. I appreciate you have me on taking the time to

Thomas Mooney  1:09:17  

talk. Alright, that is it. For this one right here. Be sure to check out Dallas Burrow by Dallas Burrow out this Friday, July 23. Goes hop on over and visit our presenting partners desert door and the blue light live. And yeah, I'll see y'all later this week for another episode.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai